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Post by kahrtmen on Sept 25, 2015 19:49:06 GMT -5
I like a lot of this. Things I would change:
1) I prefer to leave playoff wins out of it. Otherwise you can have a 79-win team get extra wins just because they play in a shitty division.
2) Why limit the number of drafted players to 27?
3) I think the payouts are fine, but I still think that any owner there at the end should get half their money back to entice them to stay.
I like the idea of keeping your franchise. That way you have incentive to maintain the minors since some of those guys may still end up on your team. Since we are not assuming 100% participation, I assume free agents would not be eligible for the draft.
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Post by foulballz on Sept 25, 2015 20:34:21 GMT -5
You're not stealing my thunder Mike, this is exactly what I want. A discussion and different ideas presented. I don't like counting playoff wins either. Top teams go on three game losing streaks all the time. 1 and 2 seeded teams get a bye and miss out on a potential round of wins. It would also increase the gap from the top teams and the middle of the pack, causing some to lose interest if they're out of it. Same idea as why I don't like win penalties and bonuses. It would have totally sucked to get a ten game penalty before playing your first game because of a brain fart. It would have totally taken the wind out of my sails and ruined the enjoyment for 4 seasons.
-What if besides the deposit and prize pool money, we also had each owner throw in $2 to a fund for a contest replacement owners could have. Whoever increases their teams wins the most (or whatever) wins $64 above and beyond getting the deposit. This will have to get fine tuned, but could help entice guys to come in.
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Post by foulballz on Sept 25, 2015 20:39:44 GMT -5
Also, I don't see why we can't have all 32 teams on board. This world filled easily enough up until this year. If next installment in the last year, you pay$25 to win a guaranteed $50 or whatever the deposit is, that should be enticing enough to sign up for the tourney.
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Post by Mike T on Sept 26, 2015 7:07:30 GMT -5
I included playoff wins in order to give the bottom teams a shot to catch up with a big 3rd season. It's 11-14 wins per season for someone. That said, maybe it just gives the winner from season 1 the chance to improve their lead each season.
I stopped the draft at 27 from each team to encourage owners to develop minor leaguers, assuming they intended to return and keep their team in the next installment, and issue reasonable contracts(because they might get stuck with them in the next installment). Also, at best, you're only getting one round in per day. 26 days is a long time to wait to play.
I didn't delve too deeply into the financial parts of it because I know most of you want full participation. I believe that's a pipe dream. Obviously I'm not setting the rules, I'm just throwing out ideas for those who do.
Free agents would not be drafted under my plan.
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Post by foulballz on Sept 28, 2015 21:01:32 GMT -5
I was thinking about sending out a survey to everyone in sitemail. That way we can figure out who even intends to return, and solicit some opinions. I'd also like to find out who's in or out so we can get advertise in the classifieds and draw applicants for a month or so. That will leave us plenty of time to go through them, and pick the best. I suppose we fill 28 or so spots to allow for any who refuse to leave. I'd like to have them selected with a month left. That way the spur of the moment guys who can't even wait a month to start will weed themselves out. Anyways, here's a list of the debated topics. With different ideas we had.
How many seasons of tourney? 3, 4, or 5?
Buy-In. $25 to prize pool seems to be a given. Should we add $2 for a "replacement owner contest fund?" How big should the deposit be? $25, $50? $25 per season of tourney after the first one? Since everybody should play first season, this means $50 for 3 yr, $75 for 4 yr, $100 for 5 yr.
#rounds of draft- 20. More or less?
Should no re-signing of coaches be a rule? or only no resigning ML coaches? Seems like this could be part of picking your franchise though. I'd vote no restriction here.
Amateur Draft- Sign all Willing to Sign for Slot Money seems to be a given. Should we allow transfers? I suppose we might as well. It's one less rule to keep track of.
Minor league stuff- should we even have rules? I don't like win bonuses for reasons given earlier. The rule where as long as games sim = your compliant, else death penalty. How do you check this? Will total games be less than 144 at end of season, or are the games made up somehow? It seems like there might be a chance here where someone hadn't checked in for a while or whatever happens and their games didn't sim. I wouldn't want to boot someone for an innocent mistake (although avoidable) I'd like to keep the rules simple enough where you'd have to knowingly and willingly violate them if it resulted in death. Could we just say roster minimum of 20? roster minimum is still my favorite, no matter how low. It would be really hard to maintain minors with less than 20 players anyway. does anyone have any idea for a rule here without giving or taking away wins?
The ideas Mike had about no more than x salary after tourney or you keep your team are good in theory. But I think it just puts us at the same disadvantage in FA we are in now. Those quitting or not caring can pick any FA they want, and hurt the chances for the rest of us. Likewise if we keep our teams, we are at a disadvantage with the free spenders. And you got to assume any new players coming in for future installments will be stuck with crappy contracts and crappy teams and at a disadvantage against the holdovers. The hope is to start every installment as equal as possible. I'd prefer to leave this part out of it.
I suppose I'm advocating a "burn it down" approach. At this point, I'd rather have a pleasant tourney and cross the bridge for next next installment when we get there. I'm still hoping admin will let us pay them to build us a new world everytime. I'm hoping drama free tourney helps in that regard.
Did I miss anything? Is there something else that should be included? I'll put in our general framework too such as 2 round draft to start, pick either franchise or big draft order, and draft schedule.
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Post by foulballz on Sept 28, 2015 21:02:23 GMT -5
I'm sure drafting FA was nixed, that's why its not included.
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Post by kahrtmen on Sept 28, 2015 23:37:55 GMT -5
You're right about the available teams - the people that leave will probably leave a mess behind them, and starting with a bunch of dead money is definitely a disadvantage.
I'd prefer to have a 25+ round draft.
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Post by rockindock on Sept 29, 2015 10:29:32 GMT -5
I really would like to see a five season tournament for the reasons I stated earlier.
I would vote for a 20 roster minimum regarding minors, and if your game doesn't sim and you were obviously negligent you get one warning. If it happens again your gone.
I think the buy in needs to be increased. Owners need more incentive to stay the course.
I don't know if you can see whether coaches are willing to resign until you own the team. If that is the case then I would vote for no signing of ML coaches until it's open market.
With no free agency rules we could still end up with a mess at seasons end but I'm hoping like fb that WIS will eventually help us an give us a new world at the end of each tournament.
I would go along with no rule regarding transfer of prospect money as long as a time limit for signing draftees is put in place.
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Post by foulballz on Sept 29, 2015 22:53:37 GMT -5
I'd still like to sign coaches to minor league positions to lessen the headache, otherwise don't really care on that one.
I was wondering why you cared about time limit on signing draftees, is it so they get maximum development first yr? But really don't care about this either. Would prefer free transfers and sign by end of season, just to lessen the rules but don't care either way.
I believe we can all agree on 20 roster minimum with one warning for not simming. To me its the simplest rule to enforce if we need something about minors.
So that leaves us down to length of tourney and buy-in. Both of which should be directly correlated. Personally I'd like shorter length of tourney for exact opposite you'd like longer. I'd prefer it to be more about the draft and less about landing studs in IFA or draft.
So if we can agree on allowing to sign coaches to minor league roles, which wouldn't affect FA, then that leaves just two issues as far as I can tell. Length of tourney, and buy-in.
What about draft schedule? We need to stick to a schedule so people aren't checking in twice as much for nothing. Should we go everyday or give a day (Sunday?) off? Any thoughts on this?
Within the next week, I'll survey on who'd like to return, and preference on tourney length and buy-in. Assuming we have nothing else to hammer out.
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Post by rockindock on Sept 30, 2015 12:47:32 GMT -5
I agree. During the resigning of coaches phase you should be able to resign your minor league coaches, but not major league coaches. Major league coaches should only be allowed sign during the open coach signing period. Penalty for non-compliance = termination.
Yes, unless WIS grants world reset I would think that minor league development is important. Especially for high draft picks. Recommend 10 HBD days to sign your picks. Penalty for non-compliance = termination.
I think buy in has to be increased regardless of the length of the tournament.
I personally don't care about the draft schedule. I spend enough time on WIS to support whatever schedule is agreed to. I also have no problem with asking someone to proxy.
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Post by shobob on Sept 30, 2015 15:28:25 GMT -5
I could get behind a 16-round three-season tournament. Only resigning minor league coaches is good.
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Post by foulballz on Oct 3, 2015 20:53:00 GMT -5
This is what I'd like to send out. Let me know if anything should be changed.
PROPOSED RULES FOR NEXT TOURNAMENT
There will be an initial two round draft. The order will be picked randomly using a random number generator website. During this initial draft, you'll either pick your franchise or draft order in the Big Draft. This initial draft will be untimed, and should provide ample time to prepare your draft list for the Big Draft. We'll then have a 24+ hour break when we'll go on a drafting schedule. The schedule will be in 30 minute increments per pick and go from 9:00 a.m. - 8:30 p.m. EST. The draft will start at the next 9:00 a.m. after a full 24 hours have passed. If you miss your pick, you'll be able to make it at your earliest convenience. We'll draft one round per day until it is completed. The use of proxies is greatly encouraged.
We plan to eliminate most rules in order to create a drama-free and harmonious atmosphere. The rules we will use are as follows:
-You may not choose your previous franchise during franchise/draft order draft (to prevent any budget advantage)
-You may not resign any of your franchises' departing major league free agents.
-You may not re-sign any Major League coaches during coach resigning in season one of the tournament. You will be allowed to re-sign any and all minor league coaches. This is to prevent advantage in Free Agency.
-You must have and maintain for the entire season a minimum of 20 players on each of your minor league rosters before the start of the first minor league game. Rookie roster needs to have 20 within 10 real life days of the amateur draft.
-You must sign all draft picks who are willing to sign for slot money within 10 real life days of the amateur draft.
-Rules may be amended or created with a 2/3 majority vote. 22 votes needed to pass.
BREAKING ANY RULES RESULTS IN IMMEDIATE EXPULSION
Now, we need some opinions on the following:
-Should we allow resigning ML coaches before first season? ____________(yes, no)
-Should we allow the opportunity to amend or create a rule mid-tournament?______(yes, no)
-How many seasons long should the tournament be? __________________ (Pick 3, 4 or 5 seasons)
-What should the buy in and prize structure be? (We could go with $25 buy-in with same prize structure, or more, less, more top heavy, etc....)
-What should the deposit be? (In order to encourage owners to see this through or to help recruit new owners, we need a deposit this time. Minimum of $50 to $100.)________________________________________________
-Is there a maximum total cost buy in + deposit that would be too much?_______________
-How many rounds should the draft be? ___________________ (20? more? less?
Do you plan on applying for entry into next tournament?___________________ (Yes, No, depends on finalized rules)
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Post by foulballz on Oct 3, 2015 20:56:34 GMT -5
TBH, I'd like to do away with the not rehiring coaches rule. It seems like an easy one to innocently forget. I don't think the benefit of the rule is enough for the penalty it invokes. You'll still be able to see loyalty ratings of the coaches on any franchise you pick, and everyone's in the same boat. You'd only truly know if they'd resign if you had the franchise previously, and I added no previous franchise as a rule in order to prevent budgeting advantages. What's your opinions? Can we simplify and eliminate this rule?
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Post by rockindock on Oct 4, 2015 12:46:10 GMT -5
What about the penalty if your minor league game doesn't sim? The rule states you must have 20 on your minor league roster before the start of the first minor league game. Need to specify that you must always have 20 on the roster and if the game doesn't sim there should be a penalty/warning.
I think the no resigning of ML coaches is probably a good rule. The number one tie breaker on free agent signings is the coach. You are correct that the rule can easily be overlooked. Maybe the death penalty would be too severe. I have mixed feelings on this one. I could be persuaded to forget rule the first season and we could see how it plays out.
Which leads me to my next item. How about a rule that states that any rule that is in place can be modified, or a new rule imposed after the first season if 2/3 of the owners agree? If 22 owners vote for a rule change, or a new rule added after the first season it can and will be modified/eliminated/added.
So, if the coach hiring rule is not in place for first season, and it becomes an issue, we could propose a rule after season one.
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Post by shobob on Oct 4, 2015 16:45:06 GMT -5
-How many seasons long should the tournament be? ____________3______ (Pick 3, 4 or 5 seasons)
-What should the buy in and prize structure be? (We could go with $25 buy-in with same prize structure, or more, less, more top heavy, etc....)
-What should the deposit be? (In order to encourage owners to see this through or to help recruit new owners, we need a deposit this time. Minimum of $50 to $100.)___________________25_____________________________
-Is there a maximum total cost buy in + deposit that would be too much?________100_______
-How many rounds should the draft be? _________________16__ (20? more? less?
Do you plan on applying for entry into next tournament?_____________yes______ (Yes, No, depends on finalized rules)
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Post by foulballz on Oct 4, 2015 20:54:48 GMT -5
I left out the part about games simming on purpose. Figured minimum of 20 would be sufficient. How could we regulate if game doesn't sim? That would be up to each individual owner reporting wouldn't it? Seems messy.
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Post by foulballz on Oct 4, 2015 21:00:08 GMT -5
As far as resigning coaches, is the small benefit worth regulating it? I feel simplifying is best. Like I said, nobody knows for sure who's gonna resign until you own the franchise, and nobody would own one until they drafted it. I personally only resign FI and possibly base coaches so this rule wouldn't affect me at all. I'm just thinking about simplifying. Do we want to boot a drafting owner over this? And no other penalty really makes sense. I don't like docking wins because those get transfered to subsequent owners. It seems like docked wins was a reason for owners leaving in the first place.
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Post by foulballz on Oct 4, 2015 21:14:14 GMT -5
"Which leads me to my next item. How about a rule that states that any rule that is in place can be modified, or a new rule imposed after the first season if 2/3 of the owners agree? If 22 owners vote for a rule change, or a new rule added after the first season it can and will be modified/eliminated/added."
This seems reasonable. 2/3 is a decided majority and I'd be all for this to allow for unforseen goofiness. And if agreeing to the rules in the first place is a precursor for joining, everyone should be aware of this stipulation. Also, it would only be needed if somebody, somehow found a way to skirt the rules as stated and screw everybody else over.
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Post by kahrtmen on Oct 5, 2015 0:46:51 GMT -5
I like rule changes by 2/3 vote. I think that will be a high bar to clear, which is probably a good thing. I also agree with fb that we should just allow coach resigning to make the rules simpler. Are we not going to have any rules about salary carryovers into the next tournament? I know Mike had suggested nothing over 90m into the N+1 year.
How long? 3 seasons
Buy-in? $25 plus $25 deposit
Max buy-in? $200 including deposit
How many rounds? 25. The draft truly is the best part of this league. Making it shorter makes this league less enjoyable.
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Post by foulballz on Oct 5, 2015 6:53:44 GMT -5
I'd like to leave salary rules out. It's a pain to enforce, and skews the playing field if you have fellows a la bg
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